From the Editor

Sep-14

Where did the forum go?

This question and answer ran in Saturday's Since You Asked column, but since we continue to get questions about the disappearance of the Mail Tribune forums and the story comments, here it is again:


My question is simple: What happened to the Mail Tribune's (online) forums? — M.I., Medford

Your question is simple, M.I., but alas, the answer is not.

First, we posted notices online and in the newspaper that the forums would be disappearing. That news caused joyous dancing in the streets from some quarters and ominous muttering about censorship from others.

So here's the deal: The Mail Tribune's online forums will go on hiatus for about a month and half while a new forum system is added to our Web site. When that new forum is activated, it will be moderated — in other words, before comments are posted, someone will look at them to ensure they are appropriate.

Aha, some will say, there's the censorship! Not so, Chuckie, unless you define censorship as the removal of obscene references, personal attacks on private figures, incessant sniping between forum users and a general lack of verbal hygiene.

The old forum system provided a mechanism for responding at the end of stories as well as a way to start a forum topic independent of stories.

It was monitored through user complaints. In other words, if a user spotted a comment that crossed the line, he or she could click on a complaint link and let us know something was amiss. We would check it out and if we agreed it crossed the line, we would remove it.

Well, let's just say that proved to be a big job. We received dozens of complaints daily, thousands over the course of a year. A lot of the complaints were about inappropriate or obscene comments, which would appear despite an obscenity screen (use a $ in place of an S and let your mind run wild.)

But the bigger headache involved forum users attacking each other. It seems there are a certain number of people out there who have a very low threshold for dissent. So if someone disagreed with them on a topic, a flaming response would ensue. If the second party was prone to flaming as well, a conflagration would break out. And we have pitifully few cyber firefighters at the worldwide headquarters of www.mailtribune.com.

As with many things in life, it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. The idea of a community forum where people can engage in civilized discussions about issues is appealing. And there were many users on our forums who tried to do that. But there were an unfortunate number of users who seemed ever ready to go on the attack.

The new moderated forum probably won't solve that problem entirely. But it should be a step in the right direction.

 

Comments (50)

  • Oct-16 - karasuShoshanna, think about it. In the forums as they were, you had as much time and space as you wished to make a point, argue, cite references, link to other sites, cut and paste material from other sources. No one limited your time, number of words, or number of responses. No one rang a bell, shouted you down, escorted you from the meeting, or cut off your microphone. You could follow up and contest specious replies. Responses were instantaneous. You had a means to complain about posts, and if... [Full Comment]
  • Oct-15 - matchboxWow, still did not fully answer why Forum is gone...other than they are tired of listening to those of us opposed to BO.
  • Oct-14 - ShaggyBob,its been two days since you answered when they were coming back. How about another update. Perhaps we could get 8 hourly updates as my need to comment on local news articles makes my life incomplete.
  • Oct-12 - bHunterIf you look below to the Oct. 2 comment I posted in this string, you'll see that our best guess is somewhere around the first of November. This is in the Web techs' hands, and out of our control, but we are pushing for them to get it up and running as soon as they can.
  • Oct-12 - KathyWell it has been a month since the forum was dropped so I was wondering if we will be getting it back soon. There have been many times I have been tempted to respond to an article only to get to the bottom of the page and realize that we can't do that anymore. Could you possibly do an update as to when the forum is going to returning.
  • Oct-12 - Shoshanakarasu said in his most recent comment, the last of 4 comments in just this forum, that I should "live with it" if I don't like the forum to be insulting or filled with people who attack the opinions of others. He then went on to tell me that I should stay out of the forum if I want everything to be nicey-nice. This is exactly what I was talking about when I told the editor "thank you" for making changes. I think there are many well-informed, interesting people who would enjoy contributing to... [Full Comment]
  • Oct-9 - snoopyHere we are, reading about Ashland students absent in high numbers with flu symptoms, not to mention other current events. Nobody can comment...nobody can add any information. C'mon, the censorship has really gone quite far enough.
  • Oct-9 - karasuDear Shoshanna: In the rough and tumble world of public discourse, arguing about issues is how things get decided. A lot is at stake. Obama has promised a complete restructuring of American society and has proceeded to institute policies that many feel are destructive and wrong. This is a participatory democracy. Are we all supposed to shuffle our feet, look down at the ground, mumble a little and go on our way? Or are we supposed to stand up and make our voices heard? Some people like to... [Full Comment]
  • Oct-7 - ShoshanaThank you so much for changing the way the forums are set up. Your new ideas sound great to me. A few times in the past I wrote a comment in a forum and found myself attacked and insulted. I looked over the different opinions in the forum and saw that the same people seemed to make most of the comments. I decided it just wasn't worth it. The forum wasn't a place for people to express opinions, it was a place for obnoxious people to incite arguments. Thank you again.
  • Oct-7 - karasuDelayed, are they? How convenient. Just when the health care debate was getting good, just when the Obamists were back on their heels, just when the people were getting wise . . . I suspect that the problem for Hunter & Co,'s prooellor heads is that they can't figure out how to prevent opinions they don't like and facts they won't acknowledge from being posted on their website.
  • Oct-6 - LSMWhat is the turn around going to be until the comments get approved? Delays can make commenting back with another user so slow that commenting will just dry up and quite a few less people will use it. (probably what the MT wants anyway) I have been a part of other forums where comments took at least 6-12+ hours to appear and they are basically ghost towns now due to a person having to physically review each and every one of them. People just moved on to other real-time based forums. It's sad... [Full Comment]
  • Oct-6 - snoopyI would be nice to be able to comment on the MT news. That's what made it enjoyable to read. Being able to interract with others in the area was a plus. Now,all we're left with is to scan the headlines and go on to other things. Pretty boring. I now read the Redding newspaper where, as lease there are comments allowed on national and local events. I'd have to wonder how long your paper will survive if it doesn't catch up the the times.
  • Oct-5 - CarrmanNew forum I'm sure will be a shadow of its former self.
  • Oct-2 - bHunterAs I wrote in my last blog (on Sept. 14 -- sorry) it would be about a month and a half, which would put the return at sometime around the first of November. The Web guys who are working on this say that schedule was maybe overly optimistic, but exactly what that means, I don't know. Given that comment, I'd say they will return sometime in November. Just a guess at this point.
  • Oct-2 - snoopyCould you please give us an update as to when the forum will be available again? It's been quite a long time. Thank you
  • Oct-2 - bubs4uDon't worry folks your right to blog "Freedom of Speach" will return after Nov of 2010.
  • Oct-2 - rp4prezI'm confused. Monitoring the forum should've been easier than monitoring the romper room at Freddie's, right? So why was monitoring a valuable community tool described by the MT as being "a big job" when 1 complaint every 2 hours in a given day was the average? When the ad homs get too heated, wait for the third complainer then warn the perp once before yanking her/his privilege.
  • Oct-1 - snoopyYou are taking a very long time to make whatever "adjustments" necessary to allow the readers to post opinions. The previous poster is absolutely correct. Voices are being silenced because of pressure from a few. It's not a difficult thing to weed out the obscenity, flaming, name calling, etc. The discussions of current news items are an enjoyable part of reading the publication. Again to the MT: "taking your ball and going home" is NOT the answer.
  • Oct-1 - DiatomSo it's the end of the Month. Is there a new forum or not? Mr. Hunter obviously has had nothing to say since the 14th. Surely someone at the MT knows the status.
  • Sep-28 - Hindsight.is.20-20Discussions and conflicts of opinions are one of the things that makes the United States a great country. People need to voice their point of views (without obscene comments, of course). When the voices are silenced, we need to beware. The darkest parts of our history may be repeating itself. To the MT: "Taking your ball and going home" is NOT the answer!
  • Sep-23 - veritasI get the distinct impression we are only getting part of the story. If I have heard correctly this was a corporate decision, not made anywhere near the town of Medford, and that it involves a number of Murdoch owned papers. They cancelled their contract with one outsourced cyber-vendor abruptly before another could take its place. (I wonder if the content cops will be from Bangalore?) The forums provided a valuable community service. There were some spitters, and I must admit I lowered... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-21 - snoopyNow that we have fires burning in Medford and Ashland, wouldn't it be nice if people could post what they know about these fires in their neighborhoods?? Sometimes people are able to assist others with information. The wildfire update phone number only gives information as of 11:07 this morning.
  • Sep-21 - murphyguyIf you will publish in your paper a letter to the ed. a writer's obviously fictional conversation with a strawman racist/bigot protrayed as real. How do you hope to do better in moderating an on line forum? I am referencing Mardra's from Jacksonville recent letter regarding Obama, health care and racism where she set up a fictional racist/bigot strawman to knock down. Call her and ask for that bigot's name and phone number. Good luck.
  • Sep-21 - BertI think the bald-headed, overpaid government nazis read something politically incorrect on a MT forum, and someone called the manager, and told em to shut down their forum boards, that's what I think. Kind of scary to think they have that much control over the public media, but 'they' are out there. See that flower over there in the garden? It's not really a flower. Most flowers don't have an antenna, or connecting wires... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-21 - Curt AnkerbergThis problem could have easily been solved if the MT had required every poster to use their REAL name and city of residence, similar to how the MT handles their Letters to the Editor section. Then, posters would have been personally responsible (accountable) for their behavior. I relayed that suggestion to Julie Wurth prior to the cancellation of the "old" forums. While I don't agree with the extreme behavior of some posters, I find it ironic that the MT is apposed to "flamethrowers", when... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-21 - snoopyBoy, the Tribune is certainly boring. I was interesting to read the comments on a given news story. It's really too bad that there were some that were disrespectful, however, there weren't too many that were. Most readers managed to ignore those that were acting in an inappropriate manner. Are you protecting us from ourselves??
  • Sep-18 - anyaI agree with the decision. Because of a few people the forums became quite an embarrassment. I used to read them just to see what kind of nuts could actually read & work a computer. It's quite frightening when you realize "These people probably vote, too. It's not censorship. The MailTribune owns & runs the forum & can basically do whatever they want. If people want to wank about censorship, they can go start their own website & with own forum.
  • Sep-16 - ozmanPlay nicely, kids. Daddy doesn't like the way you talk to each other.
  • Sep-16 - karasuSure feels "MT" these days.
  • Sep-16 - Steve PlunkI certainly agree a moderated forum will serve all of us better. The flame wars distracted participants and casual readers from the topics at hand. Regardless of the problems the Mail Tribune could have done a better job of transitioning to a new system. Earlier notice and no interruption would have not only served the community but it would have left the Mail Tribune looking much more capable. As it is this looks disorganized and unprofessional. With nonstop accusations of bias and censorshi... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-16 - MagenPeople can use Craigslist for that kind of crap. Can I say "crap"? :-D
  • Sep-15 - George HuntDo away with it entirely. It's a dingbat magnet.
  • Sep-15 - DoneDone with mail tribunes site and paper now.
  • Sep-15 - snoopyI've recently had a few exchanges with MT regarding the removal of the forums. Yes, there are a few people that do not conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, however, it certainly seems that this censorship has occured as a result of pressure by the local "movers and shakers". You don't give your readership much credit for being able to figure out the obvious. I'm sure people will find another avenue to persue. At this time I barely scan the headlines in the MT and Tidings...don't... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-15 - StrixWhat a crock of bull. You have been snivelling and whining about the forums for a long time. You people routinely censor on an ad-hoc and subjective basis. Things that the censor personally disagreed with tended to get pulled, regardless of the language used, and the new system will only encourage that. It's pretty pointless to even have "public forums" (and maybe you need to look that term up so you know what it actually means), if you simply stifle those views that don't suit your personal... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-15 - ScarletribbonsWell, it's worth a try...... I'll peek back in a month or two to see where this new plan plays out. MT was going 'south' with a couple of motormouths. I'm not a fan of censoring, but some monitoring would be in order.
  • Sep-15 - diatomThere's really nothing much interesting happening on the MT Website without the forums. You can read a story but we can no longer discuss the pros and cons and opine our view. No I'm not interested in a $60/yr internet subscription. I'm not even sure if I'm interested in renewing my $160/yr MT subscription.
  • Sep-15 - KarasuWell, you're on a slippery slope now, Mr. Hunter. Are we to believe that you will not apply your own personal, political and cultural biases to determine "appropriateness" and what constitutes a "personal attack." While we are confident in your perfect impartiality and evenhandedness (Question; Is sarcasm OK?), we are somewhat skeptical of your plan to review each and every post in a timely manner. Who, exactly, will do that? What are his or her qualifications, instructions, guidelines,... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-15 - VanessaA month and a half? Seriously? Don't you understand that within that amount of time there will be a tremendous amount of people who will find other local boards to post on and will not come back to MT? I used to read quite a few of the stories posted online and the comments and now I am finding that the whole paper seems a lot less interesting. Instead I am looking at other larger websites for my news "fix". I guarantee that I am not alone.
  • Sep-15 - Jon GI belive it is sad when a few people ruin a good thing. I enjoy responding to the topics posted in the forum. I think that people in general need to learn RESPECT when responding to anyone's opinion wheather they agree or disagree. There is always a proper way to respond without being disrespectful or fouled mouth. Shame on the people who lack the character to figure this out!
  • Sep-15 - Another IdeaYahoo Answers has far more forums than the MT ever thought of having, and their system is primarily self-monitoring by users. If enough users complain, a post "disappears" for Yahoo examination. People that complain for reasons that don't hold up under examination gradually lose that ability to complain, while people who complain for cause find their vote has increased power. Eventually everyone rises (or lowers) according to their own credibility, and it's mostly done with programming alone.... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-15 - B. JonesI'll be frequenting the Medford Forum more often now: http://medfordforum.com . It's too bad MT couldn't manage what they had already. The ability to comment on news stories was very appealing. We'll see if the changes are positive or not.
  • Sep-15 - Al NeumanI see. The old forums = uncontrolled anarchy threatening to take down the MT with enormous labor demands to monitor. The new forum to come, with EVERY post being monitored instead = an acceptable cost to the MT. Hmm. What part makes this explanation unbelievable? Now, you wonder if we'd pay $5 a month for an internet subscription. HAHAHAHA!
  • Sep-15 - JoeyDGI have been to other forums that weren't moderated at all and ended up wishing I hadn't visited them. When you're in public, even online, you should act reasonable and dignified. It's reminds me of people who talk on their cell phones in church and people who don't wear shirts and shoes in the grocery store or big women who wear stretch pants and belly shirts. And what about those people who smoke in the movie theater, people who intentionally run red lights that have been red for a full 30... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-15 - MLFIt's sad that people who would rather make personal attacks make more mess for the newspaper to clean up, and impedes the communication of more civilized people. That's true in speech as well as print, however. I guess that despite how far we have come, human nature is not so easily and evenly tamed.
  • Sep-15 - Brookings readerI enjoyed the forums and made a comment once in a while. I just hope it is not censored to a point of not being able to say how you feel about responsibility for actions even if they result in the death of the irresposible party. I spent more time on the MT website than the other 8 I regularly read
  • Sep-14 - Bob AndrewsThe San Francisco Chronicle utilizes an online reader response, similar to the one you have described. I think it is a good idea. The forum was going into the tank, and you pulled the plug. Good Decision
  • Sep-14 - Rick HarrisThanks Bob. Free speech isn't unfettered speech--free speech in a civil society requires a bit of self-censorship, a hint of common civility, and a dash of common sense. We all agree that yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre can have unintended (or intended) consequences and ought to be limited to an actual emergency. Somehow we don't see "forums" or "blogging" in the same light, yet these forms of "free speech" can have equally damaging results when improperly used. Saying whatever one wants... [Full Comment]
  • Sep-14 - bubs4uIt's sad that we cannot live in a perfect world.
  • Sep-14 - geezerI agree. Some topics tend to get very personal responses - as in "kill the messenger if you don't like the message." I hope your new system works, as I think the forums are a valuable way to see what the readers are thinking and to share information.
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Bob Hunter is the editor of the Mail Tribune and as such gets a whole lot of calls and e-mails about a whole lot of things involving the newspaper. This blog will give him (and other editors) a chance to discuss some of the issues that come up regularly as well as some of the crazy things that come at us from out of the blue.


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